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In depth Interview with V.I.T.R.I.O.L zine

Answered by deacon d.

1) You mentioned the « resurrection » of hetroertzen, happening between your third album and “exaltation of wisdom”, more focused on « musical expressionism » before and more mystical now. Can this resurrection be compared to a kind of Black Work? And in this case what did you calcinate in order to ascend?


To go throughout hard times and difficulties of all kind, feels like crossing a desert of mud and smoke and so did we feel during those times. That is why we henceforth called it Resurrection. Some of the members were awakened from the common current and instructed to go further with the rules of the Art.

It is like the humiliation process to ascend higher.



2) Back to an era when you were saying you would never tour, you stated that your Hetroertzen live rituals “worked fine as long as we keep distance from the Black Metal scene and most of their bands and people”

Now that you have toured and played in several festivals, this is harder to keep your distance from the aforementioned, isnt’it? So how come you still manage to do it, or has your position evolved on that matter? By the way, if we consider that most of the BM scene is unworthy, what could we say about the audience, among which ¾ of it does not have a clue about what is going on (this is particularly blatant when we read the live reports of wanna be online consumers journalists) and is just here to headbang while waving the horns, especially in festivals?


If we felt like saying that for example, we were not interested in touring, that´s just fine. When we accepted to tour, we discussed that with our members of course and then we just liked the idea, I mean why not, we felt like doing it, we do as we please. It is not that complicated to understand. People will feel as well if they take us serious or not, our consciousness is clear as long as we do our Work.

We are not stagnated with anything, nor do we need to give explanation concerning our acts. Life happens and the flame inside burns in different ways. One day you want to do something, next day you don’t. Sometimes someone do something, then he/she just regrets it. It is natural. We are not machines.

If we said before that we wanted to keep ourselves from the Black Metal scene, be it bands and people; we never meant there was something wrong with them, nor did we say the people involved in the black metal circle is unworthy. We just wanted to keep distance from the common black metal current. That´s all.

Spirituality has become a huge trend nowadays as well and the more Black Metal bands appear, the more they will try to impress through this "spiritual" image, just to gain respect and be entitled "cult band" as soon as possible. 

The people you mention; those with the horns up, etc; We are not there for them. They can do what they will, but our Art should be perceived and appreciated by the few who have understanding.


3) You stated in an interview: « very few are interested in the left side » yet for some, once they get into it, it seems they can’t just get rid of, for I know a friend who was into the left hand path, turned into a born again christian, and yet confesses he just can’t stop listening to and be inspired by Black Metal and Occult music in general… So do you choose the left hand path or does it choose you?


Because of the devils charm (kidding). They simply need it, they miss all that and they will always remember the feeling. It is impossible to get rid of something someone built so strong boundaries with. I cannot say if the dark path chooses you or vice versa, but as long as the link is strong, it will remain there. Magical, inspiring, fascinating, emotional, beautiful.

It is easy to say that the path chooses someone, but I believe it is someone who call for it. Dark things exist out there. Hunting and waiting; And people is curious.



4) What struck me in one of your interviews is when you said that it was possible to abandon the left hand path, even once onwards into it. I could not have thought possible before I personnally witnessed it when some closer friends went from LHP to RHP conversion in a very short time. According to you, what can be the criteria to let go and willingly return to your prison? Fear and denial when confronted to the void and grief resulting from a fit of lucidity? Spiritual laziness?


I think it is the wish of someone to try out things first and know that there is a chance to regret it afterwards. Many people remain spiritual, only in another way. The ways of Darkness-Enlightenment are many and sometimes a subtle balance is required to achieve semi-perfection. Angels for example are something in between. Neither dark, nor light, but both. Knowing (as the gods) good and evil, this is symbolic for ultimate wisdom. I’m not referring to demons here. That is more like a concept.

Abut fear, grief, shame and regret. People is full of ego and that is the problem if you think about it. Pride is the mother of all sins and it is ego that builds walls in our development. In almost every case.


5) Within the Illustrious Ordo Scio you works in a group : as we do with Projekt’ill, but with VERY different spiritual paths according to the individuals who are part of it. The band Ascension was saying their members just needed a spiritual path to fit among the band but not necessarily the same. Do you think the same inside Hetroertzen or do the members all have to be part of the IOS? 


In just our case, the band members are sharing most of our perceptions, ideas, and beliefs. If they are members of the I.O.S., it is not up to me to say unfortunately. But Hetroertzen itself is deeply dealing with the teachings of the I.O.S. in a more poetic way. Not directly revealing our techniques or rituals. What we do at stage is just a small theatrical reflection of things that are represented in our inner circle.

As long as we have this in common, things work just fine when it comes to music creation and poetry.


6) According to you, Humiliation et submission elevate the spiritual conscience…  ¾ of the potential readers would stop right there, because it sounds very christian for a start…  Plus it is exactly what some born again christians told me once, that when they bowed down before the demiurge and were submissive for the first time in their life, something within them elevated… Besides, a band like SEKTARISM has a concept which is basically based on humiliation and submission, and seems to be revered by all within the Black Metal sphere. So, could not we say that it is paradoxically a certain misplaced ego which leads us to flee from those concepts?


It is mostly because of their ego. Indeed. Almost none likes to be humiliated. Especially in front of people, exposing their fears, shame, and weak points.

When someone is humiliated, they get desperate and built an imaginary barrier and they think it can protect them, but this is false as the whole image they are showing.

If it sounds Christian that’s only a perception of the wrong picture.

What they think (Christians) it elevates, is just suggestion. Mass hysteria and confusing emotions.

The raising of the Spirit is another thing, much more different, l cannot go deeper in this matter as l know what people will think about all of this, but l personally am loyal to our tradition and defend what l think, the same as many others.

3/4 of the so called spiritual, occult or esoteric are mostly individuals with arrogant attitude so to speak. Many of you realise that.

Thinking they can best and even criticise others ideas or beliefs. It is wrong!

This; far from being spiritual, is just pathetic. They should try instead, fresh things and stop being so sceptic. Dare to go further in matters they actually talk about but never practice. If it feels wrong in the work, then they can always find their way back home.

Since the spirit is free, we (and you) bow to nobody!



7)“To recreate Daath where it originally was, through balancing good and evil and finding a third way” is one of your quotes from an interview…

Is it the same as balancing the notions of sacred and profane to reach a third way, the sacral, where everything and the slightest move or thought is in accordance with the true divine?


Exactly. It is again the concept of good and evil (Mercy and Severity) no longer divided, but united in harmony to enlighten Daath, not invisible anymore, but shining strong and reactivating all the other Sephirot.

That third way (or pillar) has no name in the practical work. No description either, just the mastering of our/their divine consciousness during one’s life process.


8) When you state that the Final goal is the sacrifice of innocence and exaltation of light, are you talking about our own body as the last shell of innocence (for the body MUST and SHALL be sacrified in the end, mustn t it?) or something more spiritual, linked to the remains of demiurgic influences upon our race that we cannot get rid of until the end?


Both of your concepts are pretty much close. Very good points for the readers.

That goal is quite possible to achieve while living our lives. The sacrifice of the innocence is referred to as the ego reduction until the point we do not get distracted with earthly things and instead, raise as more spiritual men/women. With other kind of interests, much more genuine I would say.

The exaltation of that Light is our own spiritual raising meaning resurrection from the thresholds of symbolic death through pain and fear. Demiurgic weapons.


9) In a past intie you mentioned the wisdom of jesus, when he advised to be “wise as snakes”… But he actually professed other words of wisdom such as “learn to die in order to learn to live”. Jesus is revered in some gnostic currents as the Sethian one (gospel of judas, secret book of John..) far from the exoteric bible. What is the place of Jesus on your path: above, below,behind, in the way?


Jesus is absolutely not far from the concept of the Fallen (The Serpent) . 

We personally see the myth or representation of Jesus as a Light bearer and bringer of truth. Meaning pure Gnosticism in its classic way. The concepts they have updated in religious scriptures are merely based upon an idol, hero, saviour and some other fantastic allegories. For us, it is just a symbol of the spirit suffering into matter.

The modern perception of Jesus is obsolete for us, but the Christ walks besides me.


10)You condemn atheism as selfishness and you compare it to Yahve’s “sin”as the source of slavery… But at the same time you profess that morals are a burden to get rid of for there is nothing as good and evil… Is it not slightly paradoxical?


Well it depends on how you see it. Good & Evil are points of view and most of smart people agree with this simple concept. The demiurge is a state within the created where laws were done to be both respected and violated. Now the question is; which entity we are following, respecting, considering, etc. Is it worth to damage or affect others to fulfil our own desires? The wise will find out what to do in order to suppress the demiurgic slavery without necessarily affect others wishes or beliefs. One has the right to do whatever he/she wants without touching the others own Free Will. Most of the rules are made to keep order, but most of us believe that they are made to control and feed on others. So moral is just another point of view people. Only a bit more complicated than Good & Evil.


11)You go as far as saying that YHVH=SATAN, a failing god, easily challenged by his creatures such as Adam and Lilith&  The most of actual Luciferian currents would rather say that LUCIFER=SATAN. Do you stand closer to gnostic currents that perceive the demiurge/Satan as the failed son of Sophia (Nabro/Saklas/Ialdabaoth?)


I just tried to explain how We see, for example; Satan, God, Lucifer, the Christ, Yhvh, etc. All of them are representations mostly seen as Deities.

We personally see Satan as the opponent to the Higher realm or God, the true Father.

Lucifer is the sparkle which has entered this realm to save us from the illusion of existence and show us the way to the true God since Yahweh/Satan (the opponent) claims to be the only supreme God himself.

So Lucifer is the way, the Light, the Truth; exactly as Jesus in the modern scriptures. It is just a war of names!

Yahweh is the fallen, from grace. The Rebel. He is the one who place himself between the son and the father as said before and it is he who rebelled against the holy one; 

The Luminous one.

Now as we rebel against the demiurgic God YHVH (the four elements of the matter) we are also Satanic (you can perceive the connection now l guess) and the Christ (the chosen) or the Light bringer is nothing more than the sparkle from the spiritual Realm imprisoned in the Demiurge. Here is a short formula for better comprehension.

Spirit; shin (SH) within YHVH´s (Matter) becomes YHSHVH (Yoshua or Jesus) as said above; a war of words (names).

The Christ is both Jesus and the snake dying on the cross.


12)Through the lyrics of Ardetha : you state that words such as darkness, occult and such were inventions of the demiurge to frighten us, so how come the notion of salvation that is also present in your lyrics and interviews, isn’t it a typical demiurgic and moralistic concept ?


I don’t remember saying that the word occult was made to frighten us. Darkness means for us ignorance and superstition. The opposite of Light, the Light from beyond, not to be confused with false/material light. For most occultists, it means absence or emptiness, depending on which word is more suitable for each one. We use black in order to attract and absorb energy and Luminous activity, but this is our own technique and way of working.

The demiurge uses techniques not only to keep people sleeping, but to apart them from everything that means a way out. Of course the paths of darkness are many and each one of them lead us to much deeper things than a normal/moral life.

And when l say in Ardetha; behind the Veil, there is Light, Salvation, etc, I am absolutely not trying to go cliché with traditional religious toughs.

I am actually referring to each one of those ways that cross the mantle of fear and superstition in order to get enlightened activity.


13) In the lyrics of Blood for the Egregore you say: “We should never accept the pain of living.” That acceptance of the pain of living reminds me of the story of Job and the condition of Adam and Eve after the banishment from the garden of Eden… Does it have everything to do with the fact of never considering existence as a prison?


It refers to the rising of project Babylon and the great tower, when God instructed and taught men the Arts and sciences in order to come closer to the original truth.

Men was more like a creature (animal state, innocent condition) knowing nothing.

The jealous god was furious, destroyed this project and divided all the nations of the world. But the higher pyramid remains hidden and strong.


14)Yet pain seems omnipresent onwards your path (way of the cross, via dolorosa…), with for example the symbolic of the Trial, that you “live and die for”… The number 4 generally symbolizes the trial in several esoteric systems but also through exoteric faiths and even in common mundane expressions

Is the trial a means or an end (or even both) for you ?


The trial is our ritual to enter the state of the dragon. The way of the cross means symbolic death and uprising. Both concepts are parts of initiation. The sacred way to understanding. Becoming the pillars of that Pyramid.


15)You stated that the adept had to get closer to the world and humanity… Some would say it is but the contrary and that occultism means escapism from everyday mundane existence and the prison of meaningless life (isn’t it what Depressive Black Metal is all about?)… Do you favor experience above all, as a kind of perpetual trial ? As opposing to “armchair satanists” who are positively engaged into forum battles and nothing else?


I know what others would think about that statement. I am not here to agree with people, nor to present a parallel path or show them just another way.

What I mean with learning humanity and the world was more related with the Circulata which is the way of the predator to better feed on his/her prey.

I never said that we are interested in mankind or the world, but the opposite. We see the system as an opportunity. To feed on the weaker. No matter what people think about us; We are Vampires!



16) You declared in an interview that all the forces of the State and politics in general were to be considered as in cahoots with the demiurge and its enslaving morals. Isn’t it slightly paradoxical when we all know that the persons at the helm of countries are the least moral persons ever? Couldn’t we say that Wall Street, for example, pushes the boundaries of the Predators and Preys concept? Do not some wealthy and influential worldly figures live the life that many adepts could only dream of? Some Black Metal musician said in an interview that he did not understand why satanists were not in accordance with the modern world, for the latter was luciferian in essence, and you just had to switch on the TV to witness it… Any thoughts on that?


This whole procedure is only a transition between the old world and a new world. In order to create, we have to destroy. But most of the people are used to one way of life and unfortunately they will have to face the truth one day and be forced to go through black times.

Those demiurgic forces know way too much about how things really are, but at the same time they are doing their work. They are both respecting the Demiurge and working for it until the ultimate goal is achieved. When everything comes dawn we shall be able to see the ones holding the marionettes when the curtain falls.

And finally; Light shall come from Darkness.


17) You said that Having fun was important, that society was a party, and Humanity its cocktail… Again something that you hardly come across in a black metal interview, and a concept I had difficulties to grasp until I saw DODSENGEL live, being rendered totally aghast by the singer’s attitude in the first place. It is not often that you see somebody transcending what BM is live by being totally serious in what they ooze and preach while seemingly having genuine fun when doing it… Is it something that you strive for as well?


Once again; Everyone is free to do exactly as they want.

I personally can see this world as a feast and people as a cocktail, sometimes of course. We take advantage of different situations and learn as much as we can while living. That is the meaning, to learn. No one wants to die knowing nothing. 

I personally recommend to do so. It is a matter of choice. A choice we all have.

What happens at stage, stays there. Nobody can absolutely forbid us to enjoy our life and the things it involves. I am not saying here that we do not take our work seriously, but the opposite. After all, everyone can see that.

If people like this music, those clothes, hair style, etc. it is just fine as long as people feel comfortable with it. Just do not forget that it is irrelevant for the connection between one and the Higher Forces.

Hatred is not necessary to increase spirituality and at the same time; frustration needs to be removed as it conceals extreme stagnation. Enemy of ascending.



18)You mentioned the work of Parzival from Wolfram von Eschenbach as conveying a path of wisdom and mysteries toward the Lapsis Elixit. At first sight we only see a tale of demiurgic morals, for Parzival lets go of the reins of his horse and trusts in God to lead him to the Grail castle. Plus he is supposed to reconcile the dualities of creation by healing the Grail King who is caught between life and death. Finally its is clearly said that both the Blood of the Pelican and the Dragon Wort were ineffective in healing him…

Yet at second sight we see that Parzival has to ask the right question, which requires him to let go of all preconceived ideas of what is socially acceptable. He is also helped by the hermit Trevizrent, which obviously makes us think about Hermes Trimegistus.

So, with the help of hermetic alchemy and by removing the veil of the ego, the adept/initiate achieves higher evolution within what many believe to be a purely christian text. So much for the supporters of bible arsons… Couldn’t we assume that inside many alleged demiurgic texts, we can still scrath the surface and read between the li(n)es to reach traces of the pearl of Sophia?


The same situation applies to the bible. It is easy to say that some of the stuff we read seems moral and demiurgic to us. Some of them are just terrible things! Once we have Gnosis to comprehend the words, we will have a better understanding of the allegories.

We are talking of pure symbolism here and we need instruction to discover the meanings behind those scriptures.

The tales of the King has its own meaning, despite their interpretations. Our Holy Mary (the Magdalene) is for example beyond the Christian myth as the Grail is beyond the Blood of Christ. Both representing the Holy Ghost and its illuminated approaching. The Grail contains the genes of the fallen and the Woman represents Wisdom, both things help us to get closer with the holy Consciousness we call God.



19)Eversince Watain put it on some patches, the concept of lawlessness has been the fresh order of the day throughout Black Metal lyrics and interviews. But for many it just seems a romantic metaphore… For what is lawlessness from a spiritual perspective when you are constantly curbed by everyday society’s rules?


True. The pure concept I believe; is the restless inner flame which give us the will, the dreams, the fantasies... When we reject somehow the system, we’re automatically interconnecting and those flames naturally reflect in our outer selves.

When it comes to achieve goals, make a painting or why not, an album; we are pushing our thoughts and cutting the boundaries to let the imagination flows. Then it becomes creativity, then work, art, magic. Nevertheless we are ascending trough different ways, learning, becoming.

In that inner world, there are no barriers and we are not holding limits back!


20) I used to know a guy who lived and is still living a rather lawless life. Indeed he is a predator, feared by many, but any spiritual ascension whatsoever is denied to him, for his mind is totally alienated by the constant threat of the forces of the human moral system… With wealth added the things become much more different. I read in a zine that the modern Luciferian/son of Qayin had to lead a wealthy life in order to afford the trespassing of human taboos, do you agree with that statement?


I don´t know really. Of course, most of true Luciferians have a nice monetary situation, good fraternal contacts, lawyers, etc. This because the Bloodline of Cain (here; the sons of Lamech) were taught about the Arts and Sciences in order to stop living in the mud like animals and have a worthy life.

Of course this helps the predator to go throughout social boundaries and be able to feed upon others (the blood of the lamb/the prey) without having the problems that comes to the one without power.

Spirituality as we know, is nothing one can buy, no books are needed, nor a specific religion. Just isolation and introspection. But, everything related with ego should be left beside and this is the difficult part! I personally believe that a perfect advancement through life requires a subtle balance of both things.


21)I was wondering about the meaning of the number 109 you can find on many Lamech releases: as far as Gematria is concerned it could be a reference to Cain or Magdalena, but above all the sum of the figures gives ten and therefore the symbol of recovered unity with the Divine. Interestingly enough, the spelling of 109 in French gives “Sang Neuf” which means Fresh Blood… So could you enlighten us a bit about that matter?


It was at first a code for our Coven stablished in Sweden given by the Sacred Structure.

It also can mean; I ascend or Uprising of the fallen (the Serpent).



22)The last words are yours: Sinistra domini fecit virtutem, sinistra Domini exaltavit me: non moriar, sed vivam, et narrabo opera domini…


Thank you for this extensive interview. I enjoyed very much.

Follow your heart, follow Lucifer. Hail the Luminous one!

/D. June, 2015.


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